BMPCC 4k/6k pro vs Studio Camera 4k Pro

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BMPCC 4k/6k pro vs Studio Camera 4k Pro

23AndyRT

Hi @joelwsmith

Thanks for all the advice and recommendations you give.

I'm a bit overwhelmed because there are so many great options that I don't know which one might be the best for us anymore.

My church wants to update the cameras we use for live streaming, we currently have PTZs but I never liked how they moved or the image quality.
We can finally make an investment to improve quality. Our budget is 6k - 7k but since there are so many things we have to buy, I don't know where to start or what to prioritize. Tripods, lenses, follow focus, HDMI cables, etc.

I was thinking of buying 1 BMPCC 6k pro and 1 BMPCC 4k because we have an ATEM Television Studio HD. I know that our switcher is not for 4k but our transmission is only 1080p and I thought about buying those cameras because we also want to use them to record videos for church.
One problem I saw when buying these cameras is that they do not have continuous autofocus or zoom control and they only have HDMI output and not SDI for the switcher.
I was also thinking of buying a Follow Focus and putting it in the zoom and putting another in the focus to be able to control it without having to grab the lens, I don't know what this solution seems to you.

On the other hand, a couple days ago the new Blackmagic Studio Cameras 4k Pro cameras came out and they looked very good to me because it also allows us to record in RAW if we wanted to use it to record and they are more focused for live productions. It has functions like talkback, tally light and control everything with ethernet.
We would like to have a camera that in the long term we can mount on a Ronin with a wireless transmitter, I don't know how viable the Studio Camera 4K Pro is going to be.

The cameras will be about 15 - 20 meters away

I was thinking on selling our old ATEM and buy a new ATEM Mini Extreme ISO but I don’t know if that is a good decision too haha

Pretty much I don’t know where to start or what to do with so many options and so many variables lol.

joelwsmith

23AndyRT

Thanks for reaching out! Great questions, too.

Let's start with current situation and expectations for the upgrade...

How many PTZs do you currently have and what brand/model are they?

Do you have an example you can post of your current recording/stream?

23AndyRT

Hi,

We have 2 PTZOptics 20x - SDI Gen 2. The video quality is very good if the subject is well lit but the dynamic range is not that good so one part can be overexposed and the other can be super dark.

Here are some examples of our stream.
https://mega.nz/folder/coplRAIJ#meU0BdGbD846pChD0GPwrA

Thank you so much.

joelwsmith

23AndyRT

Thanks for the examples, that helps.

I'm curious where you're located? Mainly because I want to make sure the 6k-7k budget is in U.S. dollars or not.

With your new cameras, the biggest thing to consider is how they will be used and what priorities you have for them...

Do you want the cameras to have operators?
Do you want the ability to have smooth motorized zooms?
Are you willing to sacrifice things like motorized zoom for better image quality, shallower depth of field, and/or higher recording qualities?

Moving from a PTZ setup to something like the Pocket Cinema Cameras (or even the new Studio Cameras) will come with some caveats, like requiring camera operators for every camera to get any kind of shot selections or movement, lack of good lens options in your budget range, etc. It's not necessarily a bad transition, just different. And many churches don't consider everything before making that change.

23AndyRT

Yeah, that’s why I wanted to ask an expert before buying the things we need.

I'm in Mexico but I'm talking about USD.

We are considering having camera operators.
Right now we don’t use zoom while the shot is live because we don’t like how it looks with our cameras, that’s why I was thinking to buy a system like a follow focus and put it in the zoom part of the lens to do it. If that makes sense lol.

We want to improve our image quality and sometimes use the gear to record videos but mainly for live streams that's why the new Studio Cameras kinda made things more difficult for me lol.

I was thinking to ditch the 6k pro 😭 and only get 2 4k to save some money too.

joelwsmith

23AndyRT

The new Studio Cameras might be a good fit. You just have to keep in mind that you can't really mount a camera like that on a gimbal or run it as a handheld. You technically may be able to, but the shape and size of the camera will pretty much make it impossible to do those things well. So those cameras would basically have to live on tripods all the time, whether they're used for live streaming services or for pre-produced videos during the week.

It seems that the Pocket Cinema Camera 4K or a camcorder is going to be the best fit.

If you choose to go with 2 of the Pocket Cinema 4Ks, that will leave you with around $3000-$4000 for lenses, tripods, fluid heads, cables, and accessories. You can continue to use your ATEM Television Studio HD, even if you want to get camera control for the Pocket Cinema Cameras. It will just require the Blackmagic Design BiDirectional 3G Micro Converter, 2 SDI cables, and 1 HDMI cable for each camera. If you run a PGM return SDI line back to the converter from the ATEM then you can get camera control on the Pocket Cinema Cameras.

Keep in mind that the Pocket Cinema Cameras only output 1080p through HDMI. You won't be able to get 4K to your switcher with those cameras at all. So the ATEM Television Studio HD would still be a good fit.

So if you went this route, here is a rough idea of things I recommend:

2x Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K ($2,600 USD)
1x Panasonic 45-175mm f/4-5.6 ($400 USD)
1x Panasonic 100-300mm f/4-5.6 II https://amzn.to/3COOn6O) ($600 USD)
2x Blackmagic Design BiDirectional 3G Micro Converter ($170 USD)
2x Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable - 10 ft ($22 USD)
4x SDI coax cables (2x for each camera) - here are my recommendations
2x Manfrotto Nitrotech 608 Fluid Head ($1,020 USD)
2x Tripods - here are a few recommendations
- This depends on height needed
- Be sure to get a tripod with a flat base for the fluid head, or get a bowl to flat base adapter if the tripod has a bowl mount (75mm and 100mm are standard bowl sizes, and I talk about these mounts/bases in the link above)

This should get you everything for less than $6,000 USD. So if you want external follow focus and zoom control, you might be able to get one or two systems and still come in under your $7,000 high end budget.

I still wouldn't rule out camcorders, though. Here are my recommendations.

23AndyRT

Thank you so much for all the recommendations.
I think we are going to go with 1 Studio Camera and 1 BMPCC 4k so we can try it out and if we don’t like the Studio Camera we could sell it. what do you think?

You don’t like that much the idea of a follow focus right? Lol Why? Do you think with the autofocus of the camera is enough?

Are those lenses compatible with the Focus Demand for the Studio Camera?

Hopefully in a year or 2 we can make a better upgrade.

Thank you so much. I'll make sure to buy everything I need with your links 😁👍🏻

joelwsmith

23AndyRT

I think we are going to go with 1 Studio Camera and 1 BMPCC 4k so we can try it out and if we don’t like the Studio Camera we could sell it. what do you think?

Sounds like a pretty solid plan. The Studio Cameras should be pretty popular, so I don't think it will be difficult to sell one in the next year or so if it's fairly new. The BMPCC 4K and the Studio Cameras also should match pretty well since they are basically the same camera internals.

You don’t like that much the idea of a follow focus right? Lol Why? Do you think with the autofocus of the camera is enough?

Follow focus and autofocus are different...

I like follow focus just fine. Follow focus is the ability to control focus remotely without having to physically turn the focus ring on the lens. While follow focus is actually more of a film/cinema philosophy, it can work well in live production situations as well if the camera/lens does not have remote focus demand capabilities.

I LOVE autofocus, actually. 😉 I just don't recommend autofocus in a live production setting unless it has a very intentional purpose, like on a gimbal/steadicam setup where the operator can't easily control focus. On regular manned tripod cameras, or even most handheld cameras, autofocus tends to work well until it doesn't, especially in church environments. Even the best autofocus can get confused when high contrast elements are in the shot, like lights on stage pointing towards the lens, LED strips on stage, reflections on hardware in the background, or even other people's faces in the background (worship teams on stage behind pastors, for example). As a bit of context, you will almost never (like 99.99% of the time) see professional camera operators in broadcast settings using autofocus. The only time you may see it is in a fast action environment like sports, but only then it is typically used to just quickly get single touch focus and then be switched off for the rest of the time.

Are those lenses compatible with the Focus Demand for the Studio Camera?

Yes. The lenses I mentioned above have autofocus and should work with the new Blackmagic Design Focus Demand on the Blackmagic Design Studio Camera 4K Pro or 4K Plus. I don't believe the Focus Demand will work on the BMPCCs, at least not right now. That could possibly change in the future, but I wouldn't be surprised if the BMPCC's don't have the internal processing necessary to make it work with just a firmware update.

Hopefully in a year or 2 we can make a better upgrade.

This is a great plan for the next couple of years. It should also allow you to grow and adapt fairly easily.

Thank you so much. I'll make sure to buy everything I need with your links.

Thank you! I appreciate when you guys do that. It makes the time and effort put into this site possible.