Camera Upgrade - mini hdmi issues - Joel W Smith

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Camera Upgrade - mini hdmi issues

glhoop

Joel, you have a ton of great information which has been really useful to me. Our church uses an ATEM mini pro with two Canon camcorders (R300 and R800) for live streaming our services. ATEM mini pro is great but have had issues with the two Canon camcorders and almost exclusively HDMI mini connector related. During our upgrade it would also be great to improve on the video quality as well. We use facebook live so resolution of stream is limited. We have no dedicated sanctuary lighting for the video cameras but are blessed with a lot of outside ambient lighting through the side windows along with the overhead incandescent lighting. So I'm looking to upgrade camcorders(s)/camera but I think I want something with a more durable HDMI connection (maybe Type A HDMI) since I have to take down everything after each service and sometimes we are outside and sometimes in the sanctuary according to COVID levels in our community. I have taken great care with the R800 to provide proper strain relief of the 25 foot HDMI cable I use for outside services but it has decided to start providing intermittent video output much like the R300. For an outside service the camera is about 20 ft from pastor and about 45 ft for sanctuary services. Given my experiences so far, I'm really uneasy about purchasing another camera or camcorder that has a HDMI mini output. Is my experience with HDMI mini connectors typical or is that a canon thing? Should I get something with a Type A HDMI connector OR try a different brand? Suggestions?
Thanks in advance!!!

joelwsmith

glhoop

Thanks for reaching out and welcome to the community!

These are great questions.

Given my experiences so far, I'm really uneasy about purchasing another camera or camcorder that has a HDMI mini output. Is my experience with HDMI mini connectors typical or is that a canon thing? Should I get something with a Type A HDMI connector OR try a different brand? Suggestions?

First of all, it's definitely not an issue with just Canon. The HDMI connector, and HDMI in general, is very weak and was designed for consumer use in a controlled (basically permanent or very limited use) environment. It is quite common to see HDMI connector failures when cables are plugged/unplugged consistently.

One "fix" (more like a hack) is to use a short adapter in the camera and just plug/unplug the cable that goes into the adapter, leaving the adapter plugged into the camera the whole time (and ideally reinforced with a cable clamp or some other way to keep it from getting bent or unplugged accidentally). That way the adapter connector is more likely to fail instead of the connector in the camera.

I've also read of issues with HDMI cable length with the ATEM mini. Is 25' just on the edge of what will work with the atem mini pro?

As far as HDMI cable length goes, that is tricky. Very tricky. Like, ridiculously tricky. 😆

Just like the camera and connectors, it is not an issue only related to the ATEM Mini Pros or Blackmagic Design. It is, again, an inherent design flaw with HDMI itself.

The HDMI Licensing Admin (the group in charge of setting the standards for HDMI) don't even claim a maximum cable length because it's nearly impossible to do accurately. There are many factors involved in how far an HDMI signal can go reliably.

However, there is a certification that HDMI cables can get that basically guarantees the cable will work with certain bandwidths (which is determined mainly by the resolution and the frame rate of the video being sent) up to certain lengths.

Now, here's the catches with that:

A vast majority of HDMI cables are not certified. Like, 98% or more of cables are not certified.
There are different levels of certification that are based on the different bandwidths:
- Standard Speed - formats up to 1920x1080 at 30p/60i fps or 1280x720 at 60p fps
- High Speed - formats up to 1920x1080 at 60p fps or 4096x2160 at 30p fps
- Premium High Speed - formats up to 4096x2160 at 60p fps
- Ultra High Speed - formats up to 8192x4320 at 60p fps or 4096x2160 at 120p fps
The longest cables certified for Standard Speed (1080i or 720p only) are around 45 feet, and there are only a few. They're also very thick.
The longest cables certified for High Speed (up to 1080p60) are around 25 feet. And, again, they are also very thick.

So, the issues you've encountered with the 25' cable are pretty common and expected unless you're using really high quality certified cables.

Do you prefer baluns or converting to SDI for longer runs?

I almost never recommend extending HDMI using baluns, Cat 5/6 extenders, or IP-based extenders. I recommend converting to SDI or using fiber optic HDMI cables only.

You can learn a little more in my articles listed below, or you can also go through my Cable Finder.

And if you want my recommendations on cameras, then I suggest starting at the article below. And feel free to ask any other questions!

The Best Cameras for Live Streaming

glhoop

I've also read of issues with HDMI cable length with the ATEM mini. Is 25' just on the edge of what will work with the atem mini pro? Do you prefer baluns or converting to SDI for longer runs?

glhoop

So, I need to buy a camera/camcorder with a SDI connection to eliminate this issue? Does buying a camera/camcorder with a Type "A" HDMI connector resolve the issue OR are they just as prone to this failure mechanism too?

joelwsmith

glhoop

So, I need to buy a camera/camcorder with a SDI connection to eliminate this issue?

You don't have to buy a camera with SDI output, but that is the best option. SDI has a locking bayonet style connector, which is made for constant use and abuse in professional environments.

You can greatly reduce the potential of issues by using a cable clamp and short adapter to prevent from having to use the camera connector as much as possible.

Does buying a camera/camcorder with a Type "A" HDMI connector resolve the issue OR are they just as prone to this failure mechanism too?

The full size Type A connector is definitely more durable than the Mini and Micro versions, but it's still not as durable as SDI. The major issue with HDMI is that it has 19 individual pins and connectors inside the main connector, so that makes it basically 19 times more likely to have problems over time compared to a single conductor connection like SDI.